Will Electric Cars be better than Gas Cars? What are the negatives?

[KT 💣 KλBoƠM]

I can't see myself ever being able to afford a new car ... much less an electric car which of course would be new. But reading over the last year about all the issues and broken promises .. made me want to start this thread and I invite you guys to post to it as well.



Electric cars have up to a third less range than advertised in real-life conditions, investigation finds

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/electric-cars-have-up-to-a-third-less-range-than-advertised-in-real-life-conditions-investigation-finds/ar-BB1jJhPU

The battery life of the cars tested was on average 29.9% less than advertised

11 Hidden Costs of Owning an Electric Car

https://www.bobvila.com/articles/hidden-costs-of-owning-an-electric-car/

1. Higher Purchase Price (Don't think that one is so hidden)
2. Registration Fees
3. Insurance Premiums
4. Road Charging
5. Home Charging
6. Battery Replacement
7. Depreciation
8. Range Loss
9. Repair Bills (especially since you can't fix it in your own garage)
10. Charging Time
11. Add-ons
12. (not listed but I would add future HACKING)

[Sandman[SA]]

I just want to put in my 2 cents here.  With our current technology, EV's are not the way to go for everyone.  On the best of days, EV's have 1/4 to 1/3rd the range of a gas powered car and require specialized charging.  And it gets even worse during extreme temperature climates.  Those who live in inner city housing or apartments won't have at home access to charging.  The cost to own and maintain them is noticeably higher compared to regular cars.  And just like cell phones and laptops, battery life is limited.  The more you charge and discharge them, the shorter the battery life gets.  That battery pack costs about half of the value of the car when it's brand new.

On the pro side, they do provide instant power on demand, can run almost completely silent and won't produce any harmful emissions during normal operation.  Those few who have outfitted their homes with solar and have fast charging at home can use their vehicles as additional emergency power.

And one more thing that's both a pro and a con.  Pro: Instant heat and cooling year round.  Con: Shorter range because of instant heat and cooling.

But I think the biggest argument to owning an EV is pollution reduction.  Here are the facts.  EV's don't produce any emissions during normal operation.  That is true.  But emissions are produced when charging them.  Think about this.  Solar, wind and hydro make up a very small percentage of total energy production.  And the process of making just one of those batteries that power EV's produces as much pollution as letting a diesel engine idle for a year straight. 

If you want the best of both worlds.  Go with a gasoline / electric hybrid.

[KT 💣 KλBoƠM]

I just want to put in my 2 cents here.  With our current technology, EV's are not the way to go for everyone.  On the best of days, EV's have 1/4 to 1/3rd the range of a gas powered car and require specialized charging.  And it gets even worse during extreme temperature climates.  Those who live in inner city housing or apartments won't have at home access to charging.

They would have to first put in charging stations in all apartment and duplex parking lots as well as on all parking spots on street parking. As far as I have seen the only charging stations I have seen to date are max 5 at the hospital and government building parking lots.Also they are not near the front so anyone having an Electric Vehicle with Handicap parking requirements .. have not been thought of.

The cost to own and maintain them is noticeably higher compared to regular cars.  And just like cell phones and laptops, battery life is limited.  The more you charge and discharge them, the shorter the battery life gets.  That battery pack costs about half of the value of the car when it's brand new.

Another negative for those who live in major cities were commutes are shorter, times at street lights longer, and traffic slow.

On the pro side, they do provide instant power on demand, can run almost completely silent and won't produce any harmful emissions during normal operation.  Those few who have outfitted their homes with solar and have fast charging at home can use their vehicles as additional emergency power.

True but isn't that how it always is? The rich have no problem with the latest developments but the poor are left in the dust yet pushed forward anyway and not listened to and told to just use public transportation instead no matter how slow, packed and late it can be.

And one more thing that's both a pro and a con.  Pro: Instant heat and cooling year round.  Con: Shorter range because of instant heat and cooling.

I never thought about that. Care to expand on that?

But I think the biggest argument to owning an EV is pollution reduction.  Here are the facts.  EV's don't produce any emissions during normal operation.  That is true.  But emissions are produced when charging them.  Think about this.  Solar, wind and hydro make up a very small percentage of total energy production.  And the process of making just one of those batteries that power EV's produces as much pollution as letting a diesel engine idle for a year straight. 

Oh ya I forgot about that but I did remember hearing locally how just to MAKE the batteries is proving to produce MORE emissions than driving gas vehicles as it is. Interesting how they have down played that though once people started bringing that up. Another thing is that they are saying that they are finding it so expensive and are already running into a problem with having ENOUGH batteries for the demand how how many Electric Vehicles will be required if the gas vehicle ban will go through by 2025 2035. They extended the ban year because of this major fact at least for Canada.

If you want the best of both worlds.  Go with a gasoline / electric hybrid.

[Sandman[SA]]

And one more thing that's both a pro and a con.  Pro: Instant heat and cooling year round.  Con: Shorter range because of instant heat and cooling.

I never thought about that. Care to expand on that?

Absolutely.  The battery packs in fully electric cars can pack up to 600 volts.  And the design of them is to get as much power out of them as possible.  But in order to do this, they have to be cooled with an antifreeze coolant and pumped through a heat exchanger.  Like a radiator essentially.  And in cold climates, they need to be heated to keep the full power of the batteries available.  Extreme heat and cold will restrict / limit full power delivery and shorten battery life.  So, these cars are equipped with electric heating and cooling systems.  And temperature sensors in the battery pack will activate either system to maintain the temperature of the batteries.  Thus drain the battery if it's not on a charger.  Does that make sense?

[KT 💣 KλBoƠM]

And one more thing that's both a pro and a con.  Pro: Instant heat and cooling year round.  Con: Shorter range because of instant heat and cooling.

I never thought about that. Care to expand on that?

Absolutely.  The battery packs in fully electric cars can pack up to 600 volts.  And the design of them is to get as much power out of them as possible.  But in order to do this, they have to be cooled with an antifreeze coolant and pumped through a heat exchanger.  Like a radiator essentially.  And in cold climates, they need to be heated to keep the full power of the batteries available.  Extreme heat and cold will restrict / limit full power delivery and shorten battery life.  So, these cars are equipped with electric heating and cooling systems.  And temperature sensors in the battery pack will activate either system to maintain the temperature of the batteries.  Thus drain the battery if it's not on a charger.  Does that make sense?

Completely! Thanks for that! I understand now! Also I can't imagine full EV working in upper areas of Canada and imagine it will either be a dual system (which won't save money so might as well stick with current gas cars) or full gas.

[Sandman[SA]]

I can't imagine full EV working in upper areas of Canada and imagine it will either be a dual system (which won't save money so might as well stick with current gas cars) or full gas.

That's why I was saying that gas / electric hybrids are the best of both worlds.  But there is a catch to this as there are 2 types.

"Plug-in electric hybrid" which you can charge like a full EV but has a gas engine.  In a lot of cases, this gas engine is just a on board generator.  A range extender if you will.  Where others, gas and electric can work together to boost overall horsepower.

"Conventional gasoline / electric hybrid" is a gas-powered car with electric assist.  A much smaller battery is used in these cars.  But it's main purpose is to help provide better fuel economy.  And in cars like the Toyota Prius, that range assist is substantial.

But just like their fully electric counterparts, the plug-in hybrids also have the same electric heating and cooling systems.  Where the regular hybrids have a much smaller battery and don't require the same level of temperature maintenance.  They are usually just cooled by fans.

[KT 💣 KλBoƠM]

My cousin Kevin decided to buy a new car (he has LOTS of money want wanted a powerful car which he figured electric would not be). He bought a 2023 Scatpack with a HEMI in all black. Reason being is he wanted to get a car that would last him a long time before everyone is forced to electric. He said this car won't be able to be bought later so he bought it now.

[Sandman[SA]]

Dodge did mark the "end of the line" slated for 2023 for their hemi power train lineup.  This would include any and all cars carrying the R/T and SRT badge with the 345ci (5.7L), 392ci (6.2L and 6.4L) and 426ci (7.0L) engine package.  But are still being sold in 2024 as leftover stock.  The SXT version powered by the Pentastar 3.6L V6 will still be available for a few more years.

Now the 392ci engine is a tricky one to pin down.  Because the Hellcat and Demon shared the same 6.2L supercharged V8, but with a different is pulley size on the supercharger.  Making around 700HP and 800HP respectively.  Unless it's the Hellcat widebody.  Then it has the Demon's bigger pulley.  While the Scatpack came with the 6.4L naturally aspirated V8 rated at just over 500HP.  At any rate, you don't buy one of these cars for its longevity.  You buy one because they are crazy fast.  And when you go fast, you break fast too.  <--Words to remember.  When you punish these cars, they will punish your wallet even harder.  So, it's good that your cousin has lots of money because he's going to be spending lots of it maintaining that car.

Oh, and for the record, the Tesla plaid edition will blow the doors off of the Scatpack.  AND, last quite a bit longer too.  Some electric cars really are fast.